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How Segmentify Contributed to a 300% Increase in Revenue of Celtic’s new In-house eCommerce Operation!

Segmentify was beyond excited to host the eCommerce Manager of Celtic FC, John Bruce in the third vlog of the eCommerce Growth Show series three. John opened up about the critical factors involved in bringing their eCommerce operation back in-house and the key part that Segmentify played in contributing to a 300% increase in revenues! The podcast explores how Segmentify’s platform can surface products quickly to maximise exposure to customers, as well as highlight problems via the MicroAnalytics reporting tool. Dive in here for the full transcript and our blog on the inside scoop!

Valuable Learnings from the Podcast

The third episode of the third series of the eCommerce Growth Show focused on John’s experience partnering with Segmentify and insights with respect to the growing eCommerce industry through transitioning their initiatives in-house. Here are some tidbits you should look out for from his speech: 

  • Mobile-first approach is on the rise; regardless of age, demographic, or interest, more and more users are turning to buying activities on mobile. Indeed, 75% of their traffic evidently comes from mobile devices. 
  • Companies prioritise giving personalised experiences to customers that resemble live interactions in physical stores so that it can build some intimacy. 
  • Small, strategic refinements to the website, through prioritising segmentation and personalised user experiences in line with optimised user experience trends and UI best practices can help businesses foster optimum conversion rates, reduce bounce rates and boost average cart prices. 
  • Being able to segment users and understand their backgrounds and expectations make all the difference in catering the right journeys for them. The data exists out there; it is being able to analyse that data in the right way and integrate it into a part of the strategy that is important and will generate revenue. 
  • Finding the loyal user base of Celtic is key while implementing the push notification system given that constantly pushing those notifications for prospects that won’t necessarily be interested in them would create a negative outcome. 
  • Correlations could be found between the age group associated with buying tendencies and device preferences. Data revealed some of the youngest demographics tended to buy through their desktop, which could mean that they are connecting through separate PC’s that they have purchased for gaming purposes.

Increased Personalisation and Growing Insights from Data

Covering the domain of how Segmentify has assisted the football club in boosting sales and taking insightful actions for their upcoming online initiatives, John opened up about the increasing customer focus they were able to establish. Going back to in-house is in some ways analogous to having a traditional small store mentality, where you are better able to get to know your customers and provide personalised experiences. 

Through identifying the regular loyal customer base and building necessary relationships, the online store can cater towards their needs better. In addition to this, having control of the actual site itself and being able to respond quickly to feedback and review, was another advantage the club website experienced. Ultimately, they had access to data directly, rather than having to ask for reports through third-party providers, and had the tools to have a focused approach into this data and transform it into actionable results. 

Real-Time Analytics with Segmentify

While the club gets their data from a variety of sources such as Google Analytics and other relevant transactional data, MicroAnalytics has definitely assisted in rolling up data for action taking purposes and getting a focused understanding of the massive data purely from an eCommerce standpoint. 

They were able to track what items customers look at frequently and then create widgets that would display the products accordingly. Furthermore, they were able to promote certain products during a specific time of the year and have them integrated into the customer journey.  These kinds of Segmentify widgets have helped boost sales and spotlight certain images as add-ons for the basket. 

Insights also revealed a product that a lot of people viewed, but don’t end up buying, which had to do with the process of switching suppliers and the branding of the relevant shoes. The club was able to drill down on this oversight, mark it down and shift the stock, just using the real-time analytics reports. 

Selling Anything You Can Put a Crest On

A key quote from the podcast was how the Celtic club website is basically selling anything that they can put a crest on; which even included car mats! In the past, items like these were buried in the categories, but the Segmentify widgets allowed for them to be surfaced in real-time. The widgets allowed for the club to realise that people were interested in the car mats and give them the relevant attention they need. The items were sold out in a couple of days and the club issued a reorder! This was one of the first times where John’s team could easily take a step back and act fast on important merchandising decisions.

One of Segmentify’s core offerings is that they prove themselves before asking to commit. The proof of concept is apparent in the difference that reflects on the sales and conversions straight away. You can access the dashboard and see the information in real-time to track the impact of the widgets immediately. The engines are actually able to pick up what’s going on in about 14 days, giving the ability to capture the necessary journey and boost conversions super quickly. Once you get the widgets out there, Segmentify can go to market in no time!

You can see the difference it makes for yourself now through exploring Segmentify’s website and exploring how our widgets allow for highly customised and personalised customer journeys to enhance average order value and boost product sales. Unlock more revenue for your store through our real-time data analytics and relevant insights for you to take the necessary actions on your site! 

The Podcast Transcript

Phill Kay: Hello everyone, and welcome to the eCommerce growth show. My name’s Phil Kay, and as you know, we’re into the third series of the show now. And as you know, this series is all about highlighting how some of our customers are using Segmentify to solve some of their more complex personalisation needs. And I’m excited today to introduce you to a guy called John Bruce. Now, John Bruce is the head of eCommerce for Celtic FC, and he has been there since 2016, with 12 years of experience now across eCommerce and digital marketing roles. In different kinds of verticals from the public sector to DIY B2B and even funeral plans believe it. So now we’re, we’re into football, which is awesome. And so he’s overseeing the transformation of Celtics eCommerce operation with a move away from a third-party supplier. So you’re more in-house and have achieved fantastic results already by increasing revenue of their operation by over 300%. So excited to hear more about that. Hey John. How are you doing?

John Bruce:  I’m good. Thanks.

Phill Kay: Great. Well, that sounds like a great story. And doing great work at Celtic there. How did you get into Celtic? So that’s a pretty cool role.

John Bruce: Yeah, and same. I was quite lucky. Yeah. I mean, I’ve always been a passionate football fan from a young age and even managed to kind of squeeze it into my dissertation topic at university. So I interviewed one of my colleagues at Celtic, for this dissertation all those years ago. So it must’ve been fate or something, but yeah. I’m not a Celtic fan, I’m a New Yorker fan, unfortunately. I used to travel up and down with my dad for about 15 years from Scotland for all the home games. So, I mean, really when I saw the job come up at Celtic, it was too good an opportunity to kind of let it go and I was fortunate enough to get the role. So it’s a really interesting industry for me to be part of. And I do consider myself lucky because I found it all cause there are not many rules like lessons and football.

Phill Kay: No. Absolutely. Do you manage to get perks in the sense that you watch all the games from the box and all that?

John Bruce: Hey, sometimes not all the team, but I only tend to kind of go along to the packer one sort of champions league games, or maybe a Rangers game experience as well. 

Phill Kay: Yeah, you’ll be taking your trusted partners to those kinds of events as well. Right?

John Bruce: Of course, of course. Yeah.

Phill Kay: So, I mean, thanks so much for being on the show today. We’re going to start it off with the kind of reasoning and how it’s been for you to take the operation from being outsourced effectively to enhance. And that’s not a small decision to make. There’s a significant investment required there. So do you want to give us a bit of a rundown on the sort of major factors that you took into consideration for doing that?

John Bruce: Yeah, sure. I think it starts from wanting to take control of the sort of end-to-end journey for the customers.I think because we worked with a third-party supplier who got based down in Manchester, there was kind of this disconnect between the rest of our retail operations and our lane operations. So we still got 10 brick-and-mortar stores across Scotland and Ireland. And you can have this online store, which felt like it was separate and obviously, a model that we love; customers expect you to be multi-channel, omnichannel however you want to call it. And, whether they’re shopping online or in-store, they expect the same experience. So we wanted to give them the same experience, shopping online, dealing with people who actually would be employed by the club; it was a bit more personal. Whereas before it was phoning a call centre in Manchester for a company who dealt with several brands across the sport. So that was really, that was a big part of that. It was difficult for us to get changes implemented on the website. If we had ideas. We were tough to go through a very arduous process to try and convince the fuck party to make those changes because ultimately if they changed something and they will say they would have to change it across all of those seats because it would all belt on the one platform. Keeps him profitability as well, because I believe looking at the numbers that if we brought things back under control, we would significantly increase the amount of profit that we were putting back into the football club, which is ultimately what we are, what we’re there to do.

Phill Kay: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, thinking about that, you mentioned in the beginning in my instruction that you’ve done a phenomenal job of that already and increased revenue by over 300%. So, what have you seen with the kind of contributing factors to that growth that you’ve done? And how does that relate also to the COVID element?

John Bruce: We’ve seen a significant increase in the last six months. After COVID, naturally, when our stores were closed, a lot of that business was offline. But even since stores reopened, we’ve continued to see online perform above expectations. So that undoubtedly played a part, but before that, it was really about getting what we needed to get more traffic into the website. And that was something that I identified very early on. We probably weren’t exploiting our market and channels as well as we could have been doing. So we’ve, we’ve been able to increase the amount of traffic of the site to our supporters. We’ve improved what we’re doing, on the market. And then we’ve also improved the site itself, which is what increased the conversion rate and average basket values. So all those things combined really led to a big uptown in revenue even before COVID came into play. I think those changes that we’ve made or for the past couple of years, really put us in a much stronger position. So when COVID came along, we were able to capitalize on that because of the changes that we’ve made to the site itself. We now know that 75% of our traffic is coming in from a mobile phone. So making sure that we are catering for everybody that was coming in on a mobile-first and foremost, and we’ve seen the results of that with the increased conversion. I mean, we’ve basically doubled the conversion. 

Phill Kay: That’s amazing. I mean, I’ve always been very keen on following the mobile trend. I’m still in this cohort of older guys, I suppose. Well, I can’t really generalize like that.

I don’t buy on the mobile; there was all this talk about everybody’s mobile surpassing and then buying a laptop. I am still that person, even though I may happily do a Tesco order online. So have you seen a serious shift? I suppose you’ve already said that in terms of your customers then coming on the mobile express and finalizing and finishing that experience right on that platform.

John Bruce: Yeah, absolutely. So as I said, 75% of our traffic comes in. We have seen that shift and it’s across all demographics. So you’re right. Like I think traditionally people would have looked at it and said; well, that will be a younger audience that is happy to show up on their mobile phone. But I mean, even up to people over 60, we know they are completely on the mobile forward and buy-in on a mobile.

Phill Kay:  I mean, obviously, I am behind the curve. I get it. It is just standard now. Everyone’s across all the verticals, demographics are on mobile now. 

John Bruce: Obviously I don’t like all of them, but I think broadly speaking, yes.  I think technology continues to improve and payment options become easier as well. I think it’s a lot easier for people to have that confidence just to do a couple of clicks and then we’ll bail and use a really simple payment option, not having to put your card details; just a click of a button and off you go.

Phill Kay: I think like you say, watching all sorts of people doing it, they actually say that it’s more secure, right? Because you can use your mobile, obviously, even in a bricks and mortar as a card, much more security than the card itself. And like you say, you’ve preloaded security on the phone. So it kind of makes a lot of sense. 

John Bruce: Normally in our data, we’ve actually seen a kind of resurgence of people purchasing on desktop and the right and the youngest demographic. I don’t know if that’s due to the fact that a lot of them are quite into gaming, like with these big kinds of gaming computers and gaming chairs and things, and spend a lot of their lives on that. We’ve just noticed that maybe over the past 12 months, that’s the grip. There’s been a weird resort on some desktop.

Phill Kay: Yeah, that is interesting. It’s funny actually because I mean, talking slightly off the topic briefly, we were just talking this morning about how you’ve got my generation of those in their forties who’ve never been a slave to social media. Not that people who spend a lot of time on social media should feel that they’re enslaved by it. Right. Let’s be honest, but it’s interesting how I think some of the younger generations grew up with Instagram. It very much is a part of their life. Whereas someone like myself, I’ve never looked at a news feed, you know, in my life. I’ve never looked at a reel. But then we’re talking about the very latest generation where there is this indicative sign that there’s a potential kind of rebellion going on in terms of social media and all the pressure. Around it in terms of the expectation of how you should look and everything’s perfect and so on. 

Phill Kay: Yeah, no, completely. Anyway, so kind of bringing it back to them. You’ve mentioned a few bits and pieces already around bringing the operation in-house; but in terms of breaking it down a little bit more on customers, how has bringing it in-house allowed you to focus more on the customer?

John Bruce: From an operational point of view, obviously it allows us to have more focus on a customer in terms of getting to know the customers and kind of try and give them that personal experience where we know who our regular customers are, our most important customers that shop with us all the time. That’s something that we wouldn’t have had in the past. And it’s almost going back to that sort of traditional sort of small store mentality where, you know the people, you know, what they’re looking for, you can kind of cater for them, but gain a broader control than that. We are quite clear based on what our customers are looking for, what the fit is, what we’re seeing in reviews… Before, that wouldn’t have been possible. And ultimately we’ve now got the data to be able to look at these things and conduct analysis. No, we’re getting data access to the data around the online store. And that allows us to, meet the sessions and, and be a lot more focused on what they’re looking for and what they want. 

Phill Kay: Yeah, no, absolutely. So around data, are we talking about multiple sources of data, obviously, in terms of signifying, we’re talking about MicroAnalytics, are you getting the lion’s share of the data insight that you need from that? Or are there other areas of data that you’re getting from as well? 

John Bruce: We’ve obviously got things like Google Analytics on the site to be able to look at what’s happening on a day-to-day basis. We also, all transactional data gets passed into a central data warehouse, which the club has. So that will be matched up to anyone who buys season tickets or interacts with as close, any of those other touchpoints, whether it’s matched the hospitality stadium tours. So we can start to build up a picture of who those individuals are shopping with us across the entire club. And that gives us some useful information, but yet from a pure eCommerce standpoint. Yeah, I think having Sigma identification on the seat and access to the lakes. MicroAnalytics has really helped us to sort of understand what’s going on on the website at a much deeper level than something like Google analytics could have helped do.

Phill Kay: All right. Brilliant. Yeah. I mean, so going a little bit, sort of deeper in terms of some of the application of. The data’s there in trying to find, obviously, we work as, you know, really hard to sort of roll-up data to a sort of, you know, a format that’s easy to get, hold off to be an action. Can you, could you give our viewers a bit of a, a bit of, a bit of a flavour of some examples of how, how you’ve been able to move from not having that insight to now having it and what sort of results have you managed to be able to, or problems if you managed to solve, you know, from, from this, this, this data now that you’re getting.

John Bruce: Yeah, we’ve got, probably got a few examples. So with things like the, so the product, what Jay says, an example that are on the safe side, obviously the engine can pack up things that customers are looking at quite frequently and then can start to display those products and the, and the widgets to those customers, that various points of the journey. But we’ve also used it to actually help us. Promote a specific product to a specific team of the year to make sure that that’s patented at all points along that customer journey. So that they’ll see it. So like father’s day is a big team of the year for those because lots of people are buying Celtic-related merchandise for the fathers and eh, yeah. We sell father’s day cards for a year, and this year was the first time that we’ve been able to sort of keep that penned really prevalent through the customer journey because of the signify watches and that the sales of that were incredible. Like we, we faxed that to possess one in the basket as an add-on for everybody. And we’ve sold to like, as many. Father’s day cards on this year in the bevelled up as we normally would across the hall of our retail operation, just because we were getting it in front of people that before somebody would probably have had to make that conscious decision to see or wait, man, I wonder if they do cards and go and look in that section to add, to end with us, we were making it easier for them to, to add that into the basket.

Phill Kay: Yep. Yeah. 

John Bruce: And we’ve also had a good example where. We may have in the past not. Fully understood that our product wasn’t performing, for a particular reason. So like, we may have realized that it wasn’t Salem, but we may not have known why or may have been kind of guessing as to why. This year we noticed that through chain defy that there was a particular product that lots of people were viewing, but nobody was buying it. And so we were able to sort of drill down into that and look at. Why that might be. And we actually realized that it was a bit of oversight because we were making a move from the new balance as a brand to Adidas and the summer and switching cat suppliers. And we actually had a period of branded new balance trainers, which hadn’t been marked down in line with the rest of the new balance stuff. So loads of people will go down to look at them. But obviously thinking that they’re quite expensive compared to the rest of the stuff. So we were then able to sort of. Mark them down and suddenly see them shifting and the stock moving. So that was something we packed up just by looking at the trend to five reports which we may not necessarily have done if we hadn’t had that there.

Phill Kay: That’s so encouraging to hear that, that you’ve got that data at your fingertips now. And isn’t it amazing? Isn’t it. When you say where it’s at source, do you, you’ve lost control of that? And you, I suppose, as you say, you came into the role, you recognized that there’s gotta be something going on there. You’ve got the right tool to get that insight. And then bang, you’ve seen these amazing turnaround where like you say that the right product has been floated up through the engines. You haven’t got to try and manually work that out, manually curated with all the other things you’ve got to do. You’re just literally relying on the engines to do that for you based on the behaviour of the users. That’s so cool. You know, you were talking about another really cool example. Was it about the car mats that you didn’t realize? And the segments, if I sort of float them up. 

John Bruce: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. We sell like, as I’m sure you can imagine NF and that you can put a crest on. Literally, we bale it. So we’ve got, we’ve probably got any one team, a bit owned up to a hundred products on the seat. So in the past, it’s. Some things, things would be, would be buddied, they’re in a category somewhere. Something I have to really be looking for is to go and find it. So customer Sasha, we had branded karma and normally spoke with the probable tick and the hall of the customers period to chef them. The widgets and Segmentify interface suddenly realized that people were interested in them and were purchasing them. So they started to obviously be displayed to more and more people in the wedges for these. And suddenly within a couple of days, we were literally sold out of the CarMax, which we, to be clearly thought, had to place a reorder to get more done, and we lectured people like contact in a scene. And when we got the, when we got the restock back and they were quite clear that they would again, so that was probably one of the first teams that weren’t long after we’d installed Semantify on the seat. And that was probably one of the first teams that you could really set back and see, wow. That’s how this can, can really work for us. It was a real, tangible example.

Phill Kay: Yeah. No, it’s so great. And did you just out of interest actually, because as you know, segments, as far as kind of, you know, value proposition, if you like for want of a better word, is that we always try and prove ourselves before you commit to anything. How, how was it through the proof of concept? Did you see anything start to have an, even at that stage with, with the POC?

John Bruce: I’ve got a funny feeling that that, that, that karma example was actually during that perfectly. Yeah. But we definitely see that, eh, I mean, obviously you get access to the full dashboards and the information as to how much every watch contributing you can get in real-time. So it doesn’t take long for us to start to see that it was having a real impact. 

Phill Kay:  Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s interesting. We, this is what I’m so encouraged by, is that we typically don’t do anything more than like a 14 day POC typically because they engines as you know, that we’ve found this, that because of the speed at which the engines pick up what’s going on, that’s really our core thing. You know, that, that the ability to really. Capture the journeys super, super quick in terms of a real-time conversion tool effectively is really where we found the benefit. And literally, it can be a matter of hours when you’ve managed to get your widgets onto the site. And because you’re not waiting for very long to actually build a picture of what that customer is doing, it actually drives results. So phenomenally quickly, I suppose it allows segments to better go to market and say, well, look, you know, we’ll do that free PAC, because it’s only gonna be a matter of hours or a few days before you realize that we’re actually delivering what we’re saying. And you can make an informed decision, which I suppose is, you know, it’s a really lovely place.

John Bruce: Yeah. And I think that was one of the big appeals of Segmentify and to fight in the first place was, I mean, I met some of the team the Eye Arctics and Birmingham Kind of last April 2019. And then if you, as an eCommerce person that works in eCommerce, you get a lot of approaches and I can on a weekly basis from people who are telling you that they’re going to double your revenue or whatever it may be. The thing that really appealed to me was the fact that it looked, this isn’t going to cost you anything. All we need to do is put an accord on your website, and then we will prove, we know that that’s a walk for you. And we will, we have back ourselves here to put us in your state. And we are confident that you will see the results in that 14 day period. And that you’ll want to continue with us. And if you don’t, that’s fine. We’ll just remove the court and yeah. That’s the end of it. And that really appeals to me because I think that there isn’t a lot of that and the industry, to be honest, I think people want you to take a leap of faith. They want money upfront. When you don’t even know what the results are going to be, you can have a business case based on data that you’ve given them, but you don’t actually know what’s going to happen with these things until you start seeing it in a live environment. Right? So the fact that we were able to have that proof of concept period was the reason that. What’s the reason that we went with Segmentify interface and as I see it, doesn’t take very long for us to start seeing the tangible results. 

Phill Kay: Yeah, no, absolutely. No, it’s really great to hear that. So with that, were there any, I mean, obviously, in the sense of the implementation we’re talking obviously product recommendations and onsite search, how have you, how have you got on with the on-site search, for example, so far.

John Bruce: Yeah. So we’ve seen a little bit of improvement in onsite search. I think we had a plea. We had a good search to start with. So I think we’re, we’re what can hard with a team to kind of think of different ways that we can continue to improve that we’ve, we’ve made to, to make some tweaks to it, just to, to call out the search bar a little bit more to make it feel a little bit more personalized for people when that I’m there. It’s definitely had a positive impact. Maybe not as much as some of the other areas, but as I say again, we’ve played that and we’re working with the team on how we can get more stable. 

Phill Kay: Yeah, absolutely. It’s nice that we’ve got the managed services team to try and help you as well in terms of, you know, driving best practice and the roadmap for it as well, you know, to start bringing in search results pages and. Faceted with search and merchandising and stuff. So it’d be exciting to kind of continue gaining your feedback from that and driving, driving the gains, Florida. And then, and then what about tell me, tell us about the push notification side of things. How have you been? How have you been getting on with that?

John Bruce: Very well, so push wasn’t a channel that we used before. And I think it was probably quite common, especially in the UK. I think there’s still a little bit of nervousness alone using a perch. I think people think of it as being quite intrusive that you’re suddenly sending a push notification to somebody closer. We felt that we were probably quite well-placed to deploy it. And as much as if you’d if you’re a Celtic supporter in your opt-in and to receive messages, then you’re probably not going to get annoyed about something popping up in your proposal because you let them believe in the club. But I do think it’s, it’s something that’s probably underutilized and eCommerce in the UK. We’ve certainly seen very quick clips or an audience. On there, we got a lot of say naps straight away, and it’s allowed us really to just have another. Another tool to be able to push messages out, whether that’s a cat launch or whether we’ve got a seal on, or whether it’s a new product that’s the command. It’s just a really simple way of pushing, pushing that message out to a larger audience. We’ve had to lay out and obviously because I’ve not done it before, we’ve been very keen to. Use the reports and sick men to see what works, what doesn’t work the same way as you would do with an email campaign or anything else, and start to refine how we actually use it. So we’ve now got a much better idea of the sort of with push but, uh, As well as the keynote promotional messages we’d have like back in stock, push notifications product recommendations for people. So I think, again, that’s something that we’ll continue to work with the team on improving, but it’s definitely been a great start. It’s something that we didn’t have before and it’s become an important part of what we do.

Phill Kay: Yeah. It kind of makes sense to me more than. Well, anything actually,  when you’re talking about the football club and, you know, you’ve got loyal visitors, you know, loyal customers that will probably want to hear about that club because it’s a really big thing, isn’t it? The loyalty to your, to your football club. And, uh, so it doesn’t surprise me that push notification, actually something you could really explore and to just to keep that almost like the news of what’s going on with, like you say, different campaigns or different initiatives, different things that are going on. So yeah, that sounds really exciting. And then obviously to be able to push it up eventually through email as well. You mentioned earlier, not at the moment, but certainly, for the future, it sounds like in terms of the, you know, advancing email campaigns to in a similar way, 

John Bruce: Yes, absolutely. That’s the next thing on the roadmap for the team release. So for example, things like abandoned basket emails at the moment we have a solution, but it only really works for the very small percentage of people who use our site, on a daily basis. So people need to be logged in to be able to get an abandoned basket email, and not many of the people who shop and I’ll say tend to log into that account. So, yeah. We are what can be the team to look at. We have been able to capture more people who’d abandoned baskets, and then check out an email over to them. And also as you see then change to work and to our actual promotional emails, trying to make them a little bit more personalized, we tend to be a little bit more, just bulk send of email to everybody in our database at the moment for whatever offer we’ve got on that particular team. So that’s an area that we kind of acknowledges. We could, we could do better when it comes to personalizing content and making it more relevant so that people are more likely to play with food rather than it just ended up in a trash folder. 

Phill Kay: Yeah, no, completely. So just to finish off, like what we’ve been talking about, are there any sort of other tangible returns from the deployment of a segment of the fight so far that we haven’t sort of covered?

John Bruce: No, I’d say we’ve probably covered the main ones. As I say, we have a monthly call with the team which is really useful. We review all the results. We talk about things that we want to implement, and they come at us with ideas as much as we come with ideas, which is great. It feels like a proper partnership. You feel like the team wants it. Want you to keep pushing them to come up with new ideas for how they can implement the solution on the website. So, yeah. Yeah, those are really useful. And, it gives me confidence that we can just continue to build on the success we’ve had so far.

Phill Kay: Yeah, no, that sounds brilliant. And yeah, that’s really interesting to close on because that, that’s another thing that we’re. It’s very, very important. And also we’re very proud of it in the sense that, you know, we don’t hold anybody to ransom. I think you mentioned before that one of the other things that a lot of, a lot of, you know, people really respect is the fact that we’re not locking people in too long contracts and, you know, changing price brackets or consultancy costs, X, Y whatever it might be. And I think that’s interesting how it fits with the team because of the team. They, we need to make sure we’re driving things forward in the way that you’re talking about, just because it’s a 30-day monthly rolling contract and there’s no lengthy time that you can become complacent and you’ve got to wait such and such an amount of time before you and you and so on. So I think that does work in a day and age. There should be accountability, I think in business. And I really think that you know, the culture segment of ours, you’ve probably seen in terms of you know, the managed services team and the wider business is really trying to drive that kind of accountability across, across everybody. And I’m really kind of excited about that, that kind of floats through to the front line to our customers and the sort of things you’ve been talking about. But yeah, it’s been really interesting. To chat to you about these great examples of how genuinely you’ve taken them all. And you’ve formed part of the way in which you were running the business and seen some amazing returns from it. And just, just in terms of people contacting you. I mean, if anybody out there in your space, particularly in football or anyone else out there that’s currently at sourcing for example, or is considering looking at their purse station strategy or whatever if. If, if they were to contact you, what would be the best way to do that?

John Bruce: People can email me. I’d be happy for them to email me. My email address is G Or look down at Tivoli that can do the search on LinkedIn and find me there and drop me a message. Either way up here. Be happy to hear from people.

Phill Kay: Yeah. Wonderful. That’s great. Thanks, John. And then just, just as a final thing I like to ask this for the guys that I speak to is, do you have anything you’re passionate about life, about business eCommerce, whatever that you’d love the guys to take away from this chart.

John Bruce: Yeah, I think from an eco mouse and from a business point of view, I’m a firm believer that you need to put it sound simple, but you need to put the customer at the heart of everything that you do. And I think sometimes that gets lost. There’s so much technology out there now. As I mentioned earlier, people contact you on a daily basis promising to, or claiming to double your revenue or triple your conversion rate or whatever it may be. And it always seems almost too good to be true. I think you need to take a step back and think about it from your customer’s viewpoint. Well, this technology actually improves the experience for the customer and the chances are if the effort does. And it makes you more customer-centric as a business, then it’s probably what Finn invests and then, and if it doesn’t then it probably isn’t. So I think that’s something that I always, that’s something I can try and talk about in our business and, and tell other people is just thinking about things from that, that customer.

Phill Kay: No, totally. Yeah. Completely agree. Yeah, I think we’re completely aligned there in the sense that that’s what we try and do as well, you know, when it comes to working with, with Celltech and, and our customers in general, but say thank you so much, John, for that really, really insightful chat. And thank you for watching everybody. I hope you find it really useful. And as you know, if you haven’t done so already do go over to or podcast to sign up and receive any of the podcasts and blogs that we’re doing in the ongoing series and the previous ones. And if there are any topics in general, you want us to discuss or research or you want to be on the show to talk about anything do get in touch at Phil anytime, and we can have a chat about it, but yeah, just to finish off, say thanks so much, John, once again for the great chat.

John Bruce: Thanks, Phil. My pleasure. 

Phill Kay: Not at all, not at all. And look forward to joining you in the box at some point. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening and watching, and we look forward to speaking to you again soon.

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